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Dynamics 365 Community / Forums / Microsoft Dynamics AX (Archived) / Problem with how Micro...
Microsoft Dynamics AX (Archived)

Problem with how Microsoft handle bug fix.

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Posted on by Innoviz Solutions 39

Dear Sir,

 

First of all, my name is Wandee Wanikpun. I am general manager of Innoviz Solutions in Thailand. We are AX partner with the largest number of AX consultant in Thailand. I have been implementing AX since Damgarrd time, since version 2.5.  I am writing to you to let you know our difficulty in “deployment” of AX 2012. I strongly believed that this difficulty need to be addressed immediately among Microsoft’s Product team.

 

One of our customer is using AX 2012 CU6. They recently had problem running the Inventory Closing (REG:114021111173205). Microsoft support team has been working on the bug fix for the past 2 months. Then we were told to install the “model” that consisted of 4 KB in customer’s test environment. What we found out in the model that Microsoft sent us is it was based upon the latest version of AX 2012. And it consisted of many fix for others issues as well. Obviously once we installed it on customer’s CU6, it crashed with our customization, as well as some Microsoft’s own’s code. This is because the model that Microsoft sent kind of force us to upgrade the application to the latest CU, whatever it will be. This would cost us to debug the whole application because of the errors, at least 2 weeks and another 1 week to retest the whole application. Microsoft engineer called me and tried to explain that it is Microsoft’s policy to send the model. There is nothing Microsoft can do to help.

 

I told him that the way Microsoft support the bug fix will always trouble my customers because we always have additional customization for them. He told me that this is the risk the customer has to take once they decided to have customization. Vendor like us cannot afford to spend time to merge the application and fix the error every time Microsoft fix the bug. And it is not fair to the customer to pay for this service as well. Don’t you think?

 

So, I am begging you; Microsoft AX product team, Microsoft AX develop team, to think of a new way to help fixing the bug that is more practical that what you are doing now.

 

If you would like to discuss about this, feel free to call me anytime.

 

 

 

Best regards,

Wandee Wanikpun
General Manager
Innoviz Solutions Co., Ltd.
888/93 9th fl., Mahatun Plaza Building,
Ploenchit Rd., Lumpini, Patumwan,
Bangkok 10330 Thailand

Mob: +66 81 8148001

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I have the same question (0)
  • André Arnaud de Calavon Profile Picture
    André Arnaud de Cal... 304,932 Super User 2026 Season 1 on at

    Hi Wandee,

    You wrote this on a public AX community. This question is not neccessary monitored by Microsoft employees.

    I would like to give my opinion and experience with issues in AX. When we find problems it could be hard to reproduce. Then Microsoft should be able to reproduce the problem in the standard. When they reproduced the problem, they need to create a fix. Due to the size of the product it is hard to create a fix when already many other hotfixes are created. So in many cases you will not only receive one or a few related objects, but a model with more fixes as there can be related objects.

    So a model is the most safe method to deliver the fix. I do agree that the fix should be created for the version and CU you reported while creating the incident. You must understand that Microsoft is not aware of customizations in any environment. To install and merge the fix with customizations: this is not the responsibility of Microsoft. The customer pays maintenance for getting the fixes, the installation or time needed to figure out things are excluded.

    You can choose to install the fix in a vanilla version first to see the changes done. You could run the impact analysis on the customer environment to see if there would be conflicting objects prior to install the fix.  Anyway it is not recommended to install a fix directly in  a live environment. Eventually you can decide to create an xpo yourself and import only the changes related to this issue, but this will not import the objects in the syp layer and is at your own risk. On Lifecycle management you can search issues and also view the changes done for the specific fix.

    If the custmizations are written as kind of extensions, it would be more easy to merge compared to when methods are changed completely.

    Another note: please edit your post and remove direct contact information as this is public visible.

  • Douglas Noel Profile Picture
    Douglas Noel 3,907 on at

    Hi,

    I agree 100 percent. Exactly this seems to be a really great problem. Most of the apllication hotfixes in the meanwhile are cumalative "post CU7" syp layers build on the "current" application version of the reference system at MS. This current version is the xxxx within 6.2.1000.xxxx application build number).

    But only this makes it possible to create only ONE fix for all "R2 systems". If all diectly or indirectly related elements are included, it is "theoretically" possible to use use this fix independant of the application version where it is going to be installed to. There are so much combinations possible (CU1+minimalHF1, CU1+minimalHF2, CU1+mHF3+MHF1, CU7+ ....)

    There seems to be some flaw. In opposite to 2009 (only layers) you seem to have a better concept (layers plus models). But you can only habe an element in one model per layer. If you're going to have really distinct things (only Custxxxxx elements or Vendxxxxx elements) within the HFs it will work. But in the meanwhile everything is involved in everything.

    For example:

    we have two "minimal" HFs (only with relevant changes for a PARTICULAR application version) let's say CU6

    HF001 with a minimal change in Ledegrxxxx.yyyyyy

    HF002 with another minimal change in Ledgerxxxx.yyyyyy

    You are going to have the problem of HF installation order (like in 2009)

    and MS has to create this minimal fixes for currently each official supported version (breraking down to CU's,RU's)

    This cannot (and doesn't want to) be handled.

    But "everyone" knows this problem inofficially. Installtion of an HF can be really a time-consuming process (like a full apllication upgrade from CU1 to CU6 - keep in mind these are hotfixes too)

    Officially the installation is propagated as trivial.

    regards

    Douglas

  • Innoviz Solutions Profile Picture
    Innoviz Solutions 39 on at

    Of course, I did not install on the live system. I took precaution just like you said.

    But that is not the point. The point is Microsoft should find a more practical way to deliver the bug fix so that it won't trouble both Partner and Customer like it is right now. Customer already paid 16% for annual maintenance. They are not suppose to pay anything anymore for anything that related to bug fix, including the service to Partner who try to merge the application for them. And Partner is not supposed to spend incredible time to merge the application for its customer as well.

    For the past 15 years, all for version 2.5 to 2009, we have never ever had to worry about this at all. It took time to merge the bug fix but we never spent as much as as we are facing right now.

    Of course, this is the safe method for Microsoft. But it is not practical for Partner and Customer. That's is my point.

    Actually, I wrote the message and intended to send to someone in Microsoft.

  • Innoviz Solutions Profile Picture
    Innoviz Solutions 39 on at

    If Microsoft continue to support this way, Partner will likely not want to customize anything for the customers. And AX will lose it leverage over other application. I have been thinking for the past 15 years that the ability to customize anything you want is the beauty of this application. AX2012 totally changed my perception.

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