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Finance | Project Operations, Human Resources, ...
Suggested Answer

What would cause batch jobs to not run directly?

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Posted on by 482
Hi,

What would cause batch jobs to not start directly?

I'm using sysOperationFramework with /reliable async/. And sometimes, I can see that the batch job is not created directly in batch job history table. What would be the cause of that? is it that the batch thread limit is reached?
I have the same question (0)
  • André Arnaud de Calavon Profile Picture
    301,030 Super User 2025 Season 2 on at
    Hi Deldyn,
     
    Can you provide more information? What coding did you use? Where exactly are you searching for a batch job? Will the batch job appear later on without a manual restart?
  • DELDYN Profile Picture
    482 on at
    Hi Andre,
     
    I have put a code after posting process that runs in batch (sysOperationFramework with execution method=reliable async)
     
    So on the form when I click a button, a dialog gets opened, then when i click ok the posting process starts, once it finishes the dialog closes then my code gets called.
     
    The modifedDateTime for the table when i clicked ok to post was 8/10/2023 2:00:15 PM 
    However, the batch job "Actual start time" in batch job history at 8/10/2023 2:01:14 PM and it's endTime is 10 seconds later. (And not sure how createdDateTime for this record in batch job history equals end time even though start time is before)
    Which means the delay between table modifedDateTime and batchJob Actual start time is around 1 min..my question is why it doesn't run directly? In my devBox it runs directly. However in prod there is a delay and sometimes it's more than 1 min...so is it because of batch threads limit?
     
    FYI: reliable async runs on a batch...the way it works it creates a record in batch job then deletes it and keep the record in batch job history 
     
    It's needed to run directly.
  • Suggested answer
    Martin Dráb Profile Picture
    237,880 Most Valuable Professional on at
    Batch servers periodically check the contents of the batch queue and executes tasks if they have capacity. Therefore:
    1. It may take some time before any batch job looks into the table.
    2. If all batch servers are busy, it make take a longer before they get a chance to start processing your task.
  • DELDYN Profile Picture
    482 on at
    Hi Martin,
     
    1. Why batch jobs might take time to look into the table?
    2. when you say all batch servers are busy, you mean all threads are running?
    3. Why the created batchJob history createdDateTime was equal to the endTime instead of the Actual startTime?


    As I've mentioned, I need to fix this delay, as we want the data in less than one minute.
     

    To explain what I'm doing in general:

    Currently, when a button is clicked to post let's say for example a journal, when the posting is done and the dialog closes, I call a sysOperationFramework service class with reliable async execution mode. What the service does, is that inserts into a custom table that works as change tracking, and if a condition is met it exports the composite entity, then send the exported file to azure blob(in addition to few logic) as such journals are needed in real time. If the condition is not met, the service will stick to just inserting into the table, and later on recurring integration will grab those journals.

    This is working quickly in my dev box taking between 10 -15 seconds.

    Now in prod, we are having a performance issue where people are saying that it takes more than one minute for the file to reach the customer.

    I've looked at few examples and indeed i can see that the difference between the modifiedDateTime for the posting of the journal And the createdDateTime for inserting in my custom table which is done inside the batch after the posting, is sometimes more than 2 minutes!! And there are cases where it's quick.

    Journal Table

    JournalId CreatedDateTime ModifiedDateTime
    ####### 8/10/2023 2:00:8 PM 8/10/2023 2:00:15 PM
     

    custom Table

    CreatedDateTime
    8/10/2023 2:01:14
     
    BatchJobHistory
    Actual start time EndTime CreatedDateTime
    8/10/2023 2:01:14 8/10/2023 2:00:24 PM 8/10/2023 2:00:24 PM

     
     
    As you can see the custom table got inserted at a time similar to the batch job history "start time" -- so it seems the issue is when the batch actually started


    what I did, is that I tried to move this batchJob to critical batch job group (it's the only one inside this group) -- and still the performance is the same.

    4. so is the delay really happening because of the batch job threads limit??
     

    5. I'm also thinking of a suggestion, and I would like to see if you think this might improve the case.

    So currently as I said, this custom table gets inserted with all types of needed journals (Around 14 types), and if the journal is needed in real time, it continues to export the entity then send to azure blob. If it's not needed in real time, it just inserts in the table and wait for recurring job to grab them.

    These journals gets created alot, so we can find more than 10 journals per 1 min.

    If I divide these 14 types of journals to two batches, i mean i can create to sysOperationFramework services, where one inserts record to custom table and that's it
    and the other one inserts to customTable, exports to composite entity then sendToAzure -- and then make this only as critical batch group
     
    5a. would diving them to two batches enhance the performance issue I'm facing?
  • Martin Dráb Profile Picture
    237,880 Most Valuable Professional on at
    1. Well, because they're not making the request all the time. Even if they looked every second, it would still be "some time".
    2. Either running or reserved for something else.
    3. Most likely because the history record is created when the task is complete.
     
    If you put something into queue, you can expect any guarantee that the task will be processed immediately. The point of a queue is that things waited there until something can process them, which will happen after processing things added to the queue before. This is not a performance issues; it's the way how asynchronous processing works.
     
    Can you explain what problem you have with the process waiting for two minutes? It sounds like you have problem in your design if this is a problem for your solution.
  • DELDYN Profile Picture
    482 on at
    Hi Martin,
    ​​​​​​​
    1. So there is no defined period on when batch jobs look if they are free?
    ​​​​​​​
    2. Also after I tried critical batch group, i was thinking to give it a try with the reserved capacity.. do you think it might make a difference?

    3. What do you think of my suggestion in point 5 in the previous question?
    ​​​​​​​
    4. My problem with 2 minutes is that the customer is in the store and waiting. Also sometimes they wait more than 2 minutes... So ideally we want it to be 20 seconds Max. What a better approach you would suggest?
    Please note that the data returned from the journal is large, as we are returning header and lines. Lines could reach 500 in one journal. But as you saw from the timing my issue was mainly because of a delay in the batch job and not because of the data returned.

  • DELDYN Profile Picture
    482 on at
    Any idea?
  • Martin Dráb Profile Picture
    237,880 Most Valuable Professional on at
    I believe that batch jobs take a look once a minute.
    If the response time is critical, maybe using a batch job isn't the right approach. But I really can't comment on your business scenario, as I know know almost nothing about it.
  • DELDYN Profile Picture
    482 on at
    Hi Martin,
     
    1. So do you think point 2 and point 3 i wrote in the previous reply might not be worth it? (Reserved capacity or my suggestion to split batches)
     
    2. What is the best way to send large data in real time and there could be lots of journals to send per day. The only thing I can think of is when posting the journal I don't close the dialog and send it directly in real time.
     
    3. Is there a Microsoft article that batch jobs take a look once a minute?
     

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